Both together

Tony Blair: I know but it, but it’s, it’s – you know...

Jon Sopel: Hasn’t the Home Office been a great advert for the way the government is run over the past two or three weeks?

Tony Blair: Well of course there’s been huge problems in the Home Office, but what else has happened in the Home Office? Last Thursday, the publication of the recorded crime figures that yet again, showed a reduction in crime, this time a reduction, a big reduction actually in violent crime with injury, and we’re down to what the lowest chance of becoming a victim of crime for, for almost twenty-five years.

Jon Sopel: And prisons full to the bursting point with...

Both together

Tony Blair: Well, why are prisons full to the bursting point? Why, why is it that prisons...

Jon Sopel: Because you haven’t built enough prison places...

Tony Blair: We’ve built twenty thousand extra and we’ve got another eight thousand coming. But you’ve also got a situation, where today, people are in prison for longer and you’ve got of course the new indeterminate sentences where people can be kept in for indeterminate period, if they remain a danger to the public. Now I’m not saying that there haven’t been big problems in the Home Office, but let’s be clear, some of these things like foreign prisoners, or these offences that have been committed abroad by British people who then return back home, the reason we’re dealing with these now is that for the first time there is a process in place to deal with them. You take asylum, right, when we came to office, it – the backlog of asylum claims was over 50,000. It took eighteen months to process a claim.

We removed one in five of failed asylum seekers. Today, you’ve got the backlog down to a few thousand, it takes most claims are actually done within two months and for the first time we’re actually removing more unfounded claims than we’re taking in. So all I’m saying to you is, and it’s the same with the Health Service. What wasn’t...

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Tony Blair: Yeah, I know, but hang on! What wasn’t noticed was just recently, the publication of the lowest waiting lists since they began, over twenty years ago. Right. So, it’s not as if I, you know, I don’t … – look, we’re in a mid-term, you know everyone throws everything at you in the mid-terms, but actually, if you look at the underlying fundamentals, both in the economy, on public services, even in my view in relation to the issues to do with crime, there is real change happening, that – and, if we hold our nerve, we will yield real benefit in the years to come.

Jon Sopel: So why not just let Gordon Brown get on with it now?

Tony Blair: Because, you know, you, you put this question to me as if the election hadn’t happened. I mean would, would – I won an election in May 2005 and we’ve been through all this stuff about, you know, fighting the full term or not the full term and so on, and I’m getting on with the job. You know, and I want to finish what I’ve started, if I can put it like that.

And at the present time, there are things that I’m right in the middle of doing, …erm…, whether it’s health service reform or the City Academy programme, or the changes that we’re making in the Home Office, or …erm…, this issue to do with energy policy, or the international issues you’ve just been discussing – I’m getting on with the job! Now, you know, I know there’s a sort of desire, of course, perhaps the media want to get on to the new story, but I was elected to do a job and I’m doing it.

Jon Sopel: Okay. But we know it’s time limited. Just by the way, when you talked about the threat of David Cameron, you talked about these great clunking fist, that was Gordon Brown you had in mind?

Tony Blair: You either… – I’m not getting in to all this business...

Jon Sopel: What do you think... he meant?

Tony Blair: … directly or… – yeah, I know why you want to know what I meant.

Jon Sopel: Well, what did you mean?

Tony Blair: Well, I’ll tell you at another time.

Jon Sopel: So you’re not going to endorse Gordon Brown now.

Tony Blair: What I’m not going to do is to talk about my successor until the moment of my departure, cos that’s the appropriate time and place, and the reason for that is nothing, is no disrespect to anyone, is that I know and you know, that if I start talking about it, that will be the only interest that comes out of the programme, and I would prefer frankly, for us to concentrate on the issues whilst I’m actually engaged in as Prime Minister.

Jon Sopel: Do you know when you’re going to go?

Tony Blair: Erm…, I’m just going to get on with the job in the mean time so there’s no point in asking me for dates or whatever. There’s just no point. Not at the moment.

John Sopel: We know, I mean when I interviewed you... last year… [interjection]

Tony Blair: You’re going to tell me, you’re going to tell now the public is dying to know! Actually, my experience is they simply want to get the issues sorted.

Jon Sopel: I think the public is still bewildered why you’re going actually. You said, you said, you swore to the British people you would serve a full term and you’re not.

Tony Blair: Yeah, but you – it’s …erm…, I think in the end, you know, well I’ve said it to you before but in the end you’re going to have a transition, some time this term, …erm…, and, you know, I said what I did last September, there it is we’ll see. But in the meantime get on with the job and, and, you know, the fact is there’s an immense amount to do and I’m doing it.